WEBVTT Kind: captions; Language: en 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:14.001 Hello and welcome to the famous computer cafe where we talk 00:00:14.001 --> 00:00:16.001 about the world of personal computing. 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:17.001 I'm Andy Velkoff. 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:19.000 And I'm Michael Walker. 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:20.000 We've invited a guest here. 00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:25.001 Today's name is Joel Bares, president of Infocom, the makers Zork One, Two and 00:00:25.001 --> 00:00:28.000 Three, what they call text adventures. 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:31.000 So we're going to have an opportunity to hear a little historical perspective 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:32.001 and where they're going in the future. 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:34.000 That should be real interesting. 00:00:34.001 --> 00:00:37.000 We're also going to be speaking with Jack Anderson who's a columnist, 00:00:37.001 --> 00:00:39.000 syndicated columnist out of Washington. 00:00:39.001 --> 00:00:43.001 Some time ago we spoke with him about his program, the Young Astronauts Program, 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:47.001 Young Astronauts Council under the White House Office 00:00:47.001 --> 00:00:49.000 of Private Sector Initiatives. 00:00:49.001 --> 00:00:51.001 We've had some requests to hear that again so 00:00:51.001 --> 00:00:53.000 we're going to be replaying our interview with Jack. 00:00:53.001 --> 00:00:56.001 We want to also let you know about the Blue Plate specials at the warehouse. 00:00:57.000 --> 00:00:59.001 This week they're featuring Memorex Discats. 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:01.001 Prices are unbeatable. 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:05.000 Their prices are always anywhere from 40 to 80 percent cheaper 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:06.001 than you can find anywhere in town. 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:09.001 So when you go in there let them know you heard about it here 00:01:09.001 --> 00:01:11.000 at the famous computer cafe. 00:01:11.001 --> 00:01:15.000 So stay tuned, relax and we'll be right back after this message. 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:47.000 Well hi, we're here in the telephone corner and we have on the line with us 00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:49.001 syndicated columnist Jack Anderson from Washington. 00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:50.001 Jack how are you? 00:01:50.001 --> 00:01:51.000 I'm fine Andy. 00:01:51.001 --> 00:01:54.000 Welcome to the famous computer cafe. 00:01:54.001 --> 00:01:59.000 Jack, you know we were talking about the Young Astronauts Program and I know that 00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:03.000 that's a program which is out of the White House Office of Private Sector 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:08.000 Initiatives that you are very involved in as an effort to get kids involved in 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:10.001 technology and in computers which we're real interested 00:02:10.001 --> 00:02:12.000 in here at the famous computer cafe. 00:02:12.001 --> 00:02:13.001 How did the whole thing get started? 00:02:14.001 --> 00:02:19.001 The whole thing got started as an answer to the high tech challenge. 00:02:20.001 --> 00:02:26.001 The Soviets, the Germans, the Japanese are way ahead of us in graduating students 00:02:26.001 --> 00:02:32.000 who are proficient in math and science and there's real danger that we could 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:34.000 lose our lead in high tech. 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:38.001 And so as a catalyst to get the kids excited about it and to get them interested 00:02:38.001 --> 00:02:42.000 in it again we've adopted the Young Astronauts Program. 00:02:42.001 --> 00:02:47.001 It began with a ceremony on the White House lawn three months ago. 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:52.001 Already we have 7,000 chapters, about 300,000 kids. 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:57.000 The way that we're growing we should have by next September at least 2 million. 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:04.000 We expect to have maybe more than that because we may open it up to individuals. 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:10.000 Well wow, you may be a little bit modest here but it was 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:11.001 really your idea wasn't it? 00:03:12.001 --> 00:03:14.001 Yes, I proposed it to the president. 00:03:14.001 --> 00:03:17.001 We sat together in the Oval Office talking about the problem and I 00:03:17.001 --> 00:03:19.000 threw out this idea. 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:23.001 The government studied it for about one year and then he called me on the phone 00:03:23.001 --> 00:03:26.000 and said hey we're ready to implement your idea. 00:03:26.001 --> 00:03:28.000 And he asked me to be the chairman. 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:33.001 Well I know this really encompasses a whole broad spectrum of things in science 00:03:33.001 --> 00:03:39.000 and technology and what not but I also know that kids in the program are going to 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:42.001 be encouraged to use personal computers in accessing databases. 00:03:42.001 --> 00:03:44.000 Can you tell me something about that? 00:03:44.001 --> 00:03:46.000 Yeah, not only the kids but the schools. 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:51.001 One of our goals will be to encourage the schools to get up to date. 00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:55.000 To encourage them to adopt the latest technology. 00:03:55.001 --> 00:03:58.001 To encourage them to teach the children the latest technology. 00:03:59.001 --> 00:04:05.000 We're going to do this by many ways of stimulation by offering them 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:12.000 good deals in high-tech equipment, by sending instruction in high-tech, 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:17.000 by reducing high-tech information down to the language 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:19.000 that children can understand. 00:04:19.001 --> 00:04:25.001 We have a highly ambitious program that 00:04:25.001 --> 00:04:27.001 is still in the works. 00:04:27.001 --> 00:04:29.001 After all we've only been in existence for three months. 00:04:30.001 --> 00:04:35.001 Let me ask you Jack, as between the teachers and the kids, who's more 00:04:35.001 --> 00:04:37.000 enthusiastic about the program? 00:04:37.001 --> 00:04:42.000 Actually, of course before we started it we talked to all the teacher groups. 00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:44.001 As a matter of fact they're very excited about it. 00:04:45.001 --> 00:04:52.001 The NEA and all its various affiliations, the science teachers, the principals. 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:54.001 We've got a lot of excitement about it. 00:04:54.001 --> 00:04:59.001 They all recognize that space is the number one fascination for our youngsters 00:04:59.001 --> 00:05:03.000 and we're starting a number of programs. 00:05:03.001 --> 00:05:05.000 We'll have a space watch this year. 00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:10.001 It's the year of the Halley's Comet and other phenomenal space. 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:14.001 We're going to have a space watch keeping track of what goes on up there. 00:05:16.001 --> 00:05:22.000 We're going to have almost certainly, this hasn't been finalized, but almost 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:26.001 certainly we'll have an exchange of visits between young cosmonauts in 00:05:26.001 --> 00:05:28.000 Russia, young astronauts in this country. 00:05:28.001 --> 00:05:31.001 It's a forerunner hopefully of Détente. 00:05:33.001 --> 00:05:39.001 Let's toast to a real favorable result and piece through technology at least. 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:43.000 Jack, I want to thank you for joining us here at the Famous Computer Cafe. 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:45.000 We wish you lots of luck with the program. 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:50.001 Is there a way that folks can get in touch with the program and if they want to 00:05:50.001 --> 00:05:53.001 join, if there's a teacher out there or maybe students 00:05:53.001 --> 00:05:55.000 out there who want more information? 00:05:55.001 --> 00:05:57.000 I have an address here, but what's 00:05:57.000 --> 00:05:59.000 the best one that you know to get in touch with? 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:05.001 The address you have, 1015 15th Street, Northwest Washington DC, 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:11.000 is the best address, but we're in touch with all the schools. 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:16.000 This applies I should say only to junior high and elementary schools. 00:06:16.001 --> 00:06:19.000 We're taking kids from ages 6 to 16. 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:24.000 That corresponds with about what the young cosmonauts program 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:26.000 is doing in the Soviet Union. 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:31.000 So you probably, if you want to get in touch with someone, you might just contact 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:34.000 your school and they probably already know. 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:35.001 If they don't contact us directly. 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:41.001 Okay, Jack Anderson, syndicated columnist and I guess chairperson of the Young 00:06:41.001 --> 00:06:43.001 Astronauts Council, thanks very much for joining 00:06:43.001 --> 00:06:45.001 us here at the Famous Computer Cafe. 00:06:45.001 --> 00:06:46.001 Thanks for inviting me. 00:06:46.001 --> 00:06:47.000 Take care. 00:06:47.001 --> 00:06:47.001 Bye bye. 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:23.001 Well, great, great. 00:07:23.001 --> 00:07:27.001 This is Michael Walker and we're here at the Famous Computer Cafe with Joe Perez. 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:34.000 He's the president of Infocom and I think for many of you who are into text 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:38.001 adventures in the Zork trilogy, this is probably one of the most prominent 00:07:38.001 --> 00:07:44.000 individuals who really helped us get this whole new world happening. 00:07:44.001 --> 00:07:46.000 I want to welcome you here to the cafe. 00:07:46.001 --> 00:07:47.000 It's good to see you. 00:07:47.001 --> 00:07:48.000 Thank you. 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:49.000 It's nice to be here. 00:07:49.001 --> 00:07:51.001 Okay, give us a little historical perspective. 00:07:51.001 --> 00:07:57.001 I mean, a product like Zork 123 just doesn't appear overnight and 00:07:57.001 --> 00:08:02.000 historically speaking, I guess this really came from the mainframe environment, 00:08:02.001 --> 00:08:04.000 MIT and all that kind of stuff, right? 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:06.000 Yes, this did. 00:08:06.001 --> 00:08:11.000 In fact, the original people who founded Infocom were a group of computer experts 00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:14.000 from the Laboratory for Computer Science of MIT. 00:08:15.001 --> 00:08:20.001 I guess, you know, my sense of it is that it really kind of happened as a result 00:08:20.001 --> 00:08:22.000 of people wanting to play games. 00:08:23.001 --> 00:08:26.000 Can you give me an understanding of how that worked out? 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:28.001 It wasn't quite that. 00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:33.000 Zork was created by people who like to play games and also like to read books. 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:35.000 They read all kinds of things. 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:40.000 But the original Zork was created as a reaction to a game that appeared in 1977 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:42.000 on mainframe computers called Adventure. 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:45.001 In fact, the whole category, Adventure Games, was named 00:08:45.001 --> 00:08:47.000 after that one product, Adventure. 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:49.000 Okay, got it. 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:55.000 And then you guys created, from what you learned from the Adventure games, you 00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:58.000 guys created Zork and then one, two, and three, the trilogy. 00:08:59.001 --> 00:08:59.001 Right. 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:03.000 Our people always felt that we could do things better than the next guy. 00:09:03.001 --> 00:09:07.001 And we loved to play Adventure, but thought that we could go beyond that. 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:12.000 We had computer development expertise that we thought could make the game much 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:13.001 easier to use, much more natural. 00:09:13.001 --> 00:09:19.001 And also, our experience in reading 00:09:19.001 --> 00:09:24.001 mythological books and all kinds of other things made us feel that we could make 00:09:24.001 --> 00:09:27.000 the story more interesting than Adventure had been. 00:09:27.001 --> 00:09:33.000 Well, it seems to me like, talking a little earlier, you have a philosophy on 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:37.001 this idea of what people and computers, that interaction is really all about. 00:09:37.001 --> 00:09:39.000 Can you expound on that a little? 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:46.001 One of the things that we've always felt is that when you're interacting with a 00:09:46.001 --> 00:09:51.001 computer, you shouldn't have to worry about how the computer works. 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:53.001 It should be as natural as possible. 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:57.001 So when you play an info-com game, you type plain English 00:09:57.001 --> 00:10:00.000 sentences, nouns, verbs, adverbs. 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:03.001 Even if you don't understand the parts of speech, the computer understands them. 00:10:04.001 --> 00:10:06.001 And you don't have to think about typing 00:10:06.001 --> 00:10:08.001 strange commands or anything of that sort. 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:12.000 You tell the computer what you want to do, and it tells you what happens. 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:13.000 It's very straightforward. 00:10:13.001 --> 00:10:17.001 So a person wouldn't have to become a computer programmer to really understand 00:10:17.001 --> 00:10:19.000 how to use an info-com game. 00:10:20.001 --> 00:10:24.000 No, and in fact, that's true of a great deal of software. 00:10:24.001 --> 00:10:26.000 You really don't have to understand how to program the 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:28.000 computer yourself to be able to use it. 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:31.000 You don't have to be able to build a car to be able to drive. 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:36.001 You guys have a lot of different software packages out there. 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:40.001 Can you tell me some of the different names and some of the areas 00:10:40.001 --> 00:10:42.000 in which you guys specialize? 00:10:44.001 --> 00:10:49.000 Well, we call the category now interactive fiction instead of adventure games, as 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:52.000 it has been called, because we consider interactive fiction more descriptive. 00:10:52.001 --> 00:10:55.001 They're very much like books where you're the main character. 00:10:56.001 --> 00:11:01.001 Our categories of games are similar to the categories of books. 00:11:02.001 --> 00:11:06.000 We have fantasy games, the Zork trilogy, Enchanter, Sorcerer. 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:11.001 We have mystery games, Deadline, Witness, and a new one, Suspect. 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:15.000 And we have science fiction and Tales of Adventure. 00:11:16.001 --> 00:11:19.000 You kind of passed over Suspect a little bit. 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:20.001 What's Suspect about? 00:11:24.001 --> 00:11:26.001 I'll get to that in a moment now that you asked. 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:29.000 Deadline was our first one. 00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:33.000 Deadline is a classic mystery where you are the detective. 00:11:33.001 --> 00:11:36.001 Instead of reading what the detective does, you're 00:11:36.001 --> 00:11:38.000 the one who has to make the decisions yourself. 00:11:38.001 --> 00:11:42.001 Somebody's been murdered or you think it might be murder, and you have 12 hours 00:11:42.001 --> 00:11:47.000 to figure out whether it was murder or not to figure out who did it, to find 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:48.001 the evidence, and to convict him. 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:52.001 In Suspect, we turn the whole thing around. 00:11:53.001 --> 00:11:59.001 You go to a fancy costume party, and at the party, while you're standing around 00:11:59.001 --> 00:12:02.001 having good time, the hostess is murdered. 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:05.000 And it turns out you're the prime suspect. 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:11.001 So you have a certain amount of time to prove to the police that you didn't do it 00:12:11.001 --> 00:12:14.001 and probably to figure out who did do it. 00:12:14.001 --> 00:12:16.000 Otherwise they'll take you off to jail. 00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:19.001 Wow, and all this is happening in the computer game. 00:12:19.001 --> 00:12:21.000 I mean, it like pulls she in. 00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:22.000 We'll be right back. 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:25.001 This is Michael Walker here at the famous Computer Cafe with Joe Barraz. 00:13:03.001 --> 00:13:05.000 Okay, we're taking it. 00:13:05.001 --> 00:13:06.000 We're back. 00:13:06.001 --> 00:13:09.001 This is Michael Walker here with Joe Barraz from Infocom. 00:13:09.001 --> 00:13:13.000 We've been talking about this idea of people getting involved in these games. 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:16.000 I know that when you get into a text adventure, it's 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:17.001 like an all-in-thralling process. 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:21.000 You just really get in there trying to find your way around and 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:22.001 trying to figure out things. 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:25.000 What kind of... 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:27.001 Andy brought the question up, and I'm going to ask it myself. 00:13:27.001 --> 00:13:32.000 What kind of communique have you gotten from people out there as they try to 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:34.000 figure out what's going on? 00:13:35.001 --> 00:13:39.001 Oh, we have people who've been spending years trying to solve Zork. 00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:45.001 One of the things that's extremely involving about this is that 00:13:45.001 --> 00:13:47.000 you feel like you're the character. 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:51.001 You get into the story, but in the story there are puzzles presented to you. 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:53.001 You've got to figure out how to get around the 00:13:53.001 --> 00:13:55.000 troll, for example, that's blocking your path. 00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:58.001 You've got to solve all those problems to get to the very end. 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:05.000 What we find is that people will spend hours and hours. 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:10.000 They'll stay up all night, forget to sleep, forget to eat, just because they're 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:15.000 so involved in the story, but they've gotten to a point where they're not quite 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:16.001 sure how to solve a particular puzzle. 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:22.001 Now, fortunately, one of the things you can do in these stories is go on to solve 00:14:22.001 --> 00:14:24.000 a different puzzle if you get stuck somewhere. 00:14:24.001 --> 00:14:28.000 In fact, a very good way to play the game is if you really get stuck, 00:14:28.001 --> 00:14:30.000 put it away for a week. 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:34.001 Your mind works in the background while you're thinking about other things. 00:14:34.001 --> 00:14:37.001 In fact, you're spending a lot of your time thinking about this particular 00:14:37.001 --> 00:14:41.000 puzzle, and then suddenly one day you'll wake up and the solution will hit you. 00:14:42.001 --> 00:14:46.000 You can always save where you are in the games and come back to it later, so 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:48.000 you don't have to play it all in one sitting. 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:53.000 You can play it over a period of months or even years. 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:57.000 Would you consider the game educational? 00:15:00.001 --> 00:15:05.001 We've avoided calling the games educational because we haven't deliberately put 00:15:05.001 --> 00:15:11.000 any specific educational objectives into them, but I will tell you that they are 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:16.000 used in some schools and by parents because they tend to enhance 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:18.000 your problem-solving ability. 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:23.000 And for younger people who may be having trouble reading, it's a much more 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:26.000 interesting way to learn how to read than just being taught. 00:15:27.001 --> 00:15:31.000 Having had an opportunity to play some of the games, I find them sometimes 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:32.001 frustrating because I get stuck. 00:15:32.001 --> 00:15:35.000 And when I get stuck, I have this sense 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:36.001 that I don't want to sit there any longer. 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:42.000 Do you have any way for people who get stuck on some of these games to kind of 00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:44.001 ask an expert, do you have local experts that they 00:15:44.001 --> 00:15:46.000 can call or something like that? 00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:49.000 Well, let me say one thing about getting stuck. 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:52.001 A very important element of these games is humor. 00:15:53.001 --> 00:15:59.000 If you got stuck and nothing happened, you could get frustrated very easily. 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:01.001 But in fact, we encourage you to try all sorts of peculiar 00:16:01.001 --> 00:16:03.000 things to get around the problem. 00:16:03.001 --> 00:16:07.000 And you may not get anywhere, but you often get humorous responses. 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:12.001 Those sometimes get me even more frustrated, but you're right. 00:16:13.001 --> 00:16:19.000 And there's also a certain element of sarcasm that's built into all of our games 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:21.000 that people tend to appreciate. 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:22.001 It grows on you after a while. 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:29.000 For example, I was playing a game the other day where I was outside a house and I 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:30.001 wanted to find something that was near it. 00:16:30.001 --> 00:16:31.001 So I said, walk around the house. 00:16:32.001 --> 00:16:34.000 It said, which way do you want to go? 00:16:34.001 --> 00:16:36.000 I said, I don't know. 00:16:36.001 --> 00:16:38.000 And it said, I didn't think so. 00:16:39.001 --> 00:16:42.000 Good enough, even though it wasn't particularly useful. 00:16:42.001 --> 00:16:43.000 You're right. 00:16:43.001 --> 00:16:43.001 You're right. 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:49.000 Let's kind of move to a direction that I've seen with your products. 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:52.001 You guys have products on the Apple computer, right? 00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:55.000 And IBM, can you play it on the IBM? 00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:56.001 And you also have it for Commodore. 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:00.001 What other machines can you get your products for? 00:17:01.001 --> 00:17:03.001 And Atari and Macintosh. 00:17:03.001 --> 00:17:08.001 And in fact, our products run on more than 20 machines, virtually every major 00:17:08.001 --> 00:17:10.000 computer that has a disk drive. 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:18.000 Let me ask you, how about the area of, I've noticed that the show, CS show, MSX 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:21.001 has announced its entrance into the marketplace 00:17:21.001 --> 00:17:24.000 just to kind of get a sense of things. 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:27.001 And you guys have some products on the MSX system. 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:32.000 That's a Japanese-based system and you guys have software there. 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:32.001 Why? 00:17:34.001 --> 00:17:37.000 It's our philosophy to support every kind of computer. 00:17:37.001 --> 00:17:40.001 So no matter what you happen to buy, you can always play our games. 00:17:42.001 --> 00:17:48.000 Do you feel that the MSX system will have a prominence here in the United States 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:51.000 that would really have a lot of people being able to 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:52.001 play your games on those kind of computers? 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:56.001 Yes, I feel that the MSX computers is viable. 00:17:56.001 --> 00:18:03.000 There are not very many home computers still on the market with TI and Coleco 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:04.001 and some of the others leaving the marketplace. 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:08.000 So I think there is room for a quality product from the Japanese. 00:18:09.001 --> 00:18:12.001 Well, now, the Software Publishers Association, 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:14.001 let's talk a little bit about that. 00:18:14.001 --> 00:18:17.001 What's that organization really all about? 00:18:19.001 --> 00:18:25.000 It's an association of the people who create and market the software. 00:18:25.001 --> 00:18:32.000 And like any other industry association, the object is to further the interests 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:33.001 of the industry, to develop the industry. 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:39.000 And there are all kinds of different things that we do in that area, such as 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:41.000 educational. 00:18:42.001 --> 00:18:44.000 We work on legislation. 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:53.000 Do you guys concern yourselves a lot with, I know for software, oftentimes, a big 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:56.001 concern is piracy and people stealing software and things like that. 00:18:56.001 --> 00:18:59.001 Do you concern yourself with that kind of thing, and in terms of educating 00:18:59.001 --> 00:19:02.000 business as well as consumers? 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:05.000 Yes, we do. 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:09.001 One of the major problems facing the industry is software piracy, because if a 00:19:09.001 --> 00:19:15.001 publisher, if a developer cannot get a fair return on his investment, he can't 00:19:15.001 --> 00:19:17.000 afford to create more quality products. 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:23.001 Part of that, part of the goal is to educate the public that piracy is wrong and 00:19:23.001 --> 00:19:27.001 that it does hurt them in the long run and not just the manufacturers. 00:19:28.001 --> 00:19:32.001 Hurt them in ways where the software will be more expensive, maybe they might not 00:19:32.001 --> 00:19:35.001 even get the same quality products because some of the companies 00:19:35.001 --> 00:19:37.001 might not be able to stay in business, right? 00:19:38.001 --> 00:19:39.000 Right. 00:19:39.001 --> 00:19:43.000 There are many companies that are going out of business because they're unable to 00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:49.000 sell enough product to fund themselves and to allow them to produce more and 00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:52.000 piracy makes it that much more likely that they won't make it. 00:19:52.001 --> 00:19:56.000 Well, we'll take a break and just kind of wrap things up with really where you 00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:00.000 see things going with the software market and the future of software and 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:01.001 here, Japan, wherever. 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:03.000 We'll be right back. 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:05.000 This is Michael Walker at the Famous Computer Cafe. 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:39.001 This is Michael Walker and we're back here. 00:20:39.001 --> 00:20:41.001 We're going to wrap things up with Joel Perez. 00:20:43.001 --> 00:20:49.001 The difference between arcade games and interactive fiction, what would you 00:20:49.001 --> 00:20:53.001 really say is the primary difference when we talk about game software? 00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:01.001 When you play an arcade game, you get immediate feedback. 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:06.000 You get that hand-eye coordination and it's kind of a fun experience for a while, 00:21:06.001 --> 00:21:11.000 but you don't put much thinking into it and as a result, you 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:12.001 tend to get bored with it rather quickly. 00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:18.000 Interactive fiction requires you to get much more involved in the story. 00:21:18.001 --> 00:21:21.000 You've got to figure out what to do or the story never progresses. 00:21:21.001 --> 00:21:25.000 You put more time into it, but you find in the long run you get much more 00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:26.001 out of it, much richer experience. 00:21:28.001 --> 00:21:33.000 Where would you say that you're really seeing the future of all this going? 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:39.000 I mean, are we going to start seeing interactive software with more 00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:41.001 visuals, less visuals? 00:21:41.001 --> 00:21:43.000 How do you feel about it? 00:21:44.001 --> 00:21:46.000 Funny, you should say that. 00:21:46.001 --> 00:21:52.000 We've found that although we have no pictures, no graphics at all in our stories, 00:21:52.001 --> 00:21:56.001 that actually enhances the experience because your imagination is better than the 00:21:56.001 --> 00:21:58.000 kinds of graphics you can get on a computer screen. 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:06.000 Would you say that the health of the future of software is really 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:10.000 growing now or where would you say things are these days? 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:16.000 Yes, I would say the industry is getting healthier because while in recent years 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:21.000 many people were buying computers just because their neighbors had them, more as 00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:26.001 a fad, now the industry in general is getting, the consumer 00:22:26.001 --> 00:22:28.000 in general is getting more sophisticated. 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:34.000 Well, Jill, this has really been very fascinating and we want to thank you for 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:36.001 being here at the famous Computer Cafe. 00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:38.001 We'll be back right after this, guys. 00:23:18.001 --> 00:23:22.000 Well, we want to thank our guests that have made this show so special today. 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:24.001 Mr. Joel Burez, president of Infocom. 00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:26.001 Syndicated columnist Jack Anderson. 00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:28.001 Rick Burnett, our technical engineer. 00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:30.001 And Michael Welch, the composer of our theme music. 00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:34.001 And most of all, we want to thank you, the friends of the famous Computer Cafe 00:23:34.001 --> 00:23:37.000 because without you there's really no reason to do 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:38.001 this but you've been so fantastic. 00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:41.000 We just want to say thanks once again. 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:47.000 Remember we're here every day here on 93. 5 KFOX at 9am and again at 6pm. 00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:52.001 So, the executive producers, Michael Walker, Andrew Velka 00:23:52.001 --> 00:23:55.000 and Ellen Walker. 00:23:55.001 --> 00:23:59.001 We'd also like to remind you that all this week the special at the warehouse, the 00:23:59.001 --> 00:24:02.000 Blue Blade special is Memorex Discats. 00:24:02.001 --> 00:24:06.000 So when you go in, mention you heard about it here at the famous Computer Cafe. 00:24:06.001 --> 00:24:08.001 So drive safely and enjoy your PC.